[00:00:00] Rayna Neises: Welcome. This is Rayna Neises your host of A Season of Caring Podcast where we share stories of hope for family caregivers breaking through the busyness and loneliness of life to see God even in this season.

[00:00:19] Today, I’m excited to introduce you to Deb Ferris. Deb is a writer from Wisconsin. She’s a former equity actor and singer, who’s served on adjunct faculties in Tulane University, the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.

[00:00:35] She was an executive director of the Nonprofit Arts Association Dance Works MKE for 18 years, and is an author of Conversations With Dad. She recently completed a new biography with Mark and Nan Erickson, Just Along for the Ride and is currently working on her debut novel. Deb holds an MFA from the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee and Dance and writes weekly on her blog to encourage hope in hard places. Deb Ferris is also a contributing author for Content Caregiver Magazine, so you can read her article there as well.

[00:01:11] Deb, thanks so much for joining me today.

[00:01:14] Deb Farris: It’s fun to be here, Rayna. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:17] Rayna Neises: So share with us a little bit about your caregiving season.

[00:01:24] Deb Farris: Well, it is passed. I’m not in the midst of it. But a second marriage brought me home. I married my brother’s best friend from high school and I was living in Chapel Hill at the time and he was in Milwaukee and we didn’t know which place to go, but we decided on Milwaukee and it was perfect timing because my mom had been battling cancer for quite some time, and it was two times it would go away. We thought we were done with it. It, but it reappeared. And had metastasized and I was home. I was here to be with her through that time. So I had three years helping to care for her. And then after she died Leaving my dad behind after 61 years of marriage.

[00:02:10] It was really hard. He’d already had pulmonary lung disease and we thought for sure we would lose him first. So it was a a big surprise to have mom go before him and. He was very just declining. And good friend said, Debbie, prepare yourself. Usually when couples that close, one of they’ll, within six months, he’ll be gone.

[00:02:34] And so I did, I did, you know, try and prepare myself for that. However, when my mom her last week, she had asked if I would just sit with him at church on Sundays. And I had left their church to start at a new launch branch and been gone and came back and just sat with him on Sundays and, That was a really precious time to do that.

[00:02:59] And one night it was actually my, my husband’s birthday. We took my dad out for the birthday dinner at a little restaurant in the neighborhood that he was born in, and. He started talking about the history of Milwaukee in that area and how he lived just down the block. And they would come to that restaurant, which was called Charlie’s back then and fish fries on Friday. And then talked about the horses that were kept not too far off to deliver milks and the carts and down the alleys and how he loved horses and fell in love with horses.

[00:03:33] And he just went on and on and I, I started taking notes on my napkin and went home and, put together a post and posted it on Facebook. And that was the start of an incredible five years with my father. He loved telling stories and people loved hearing them. So when we outgrew the little Facebook posts, I started a blog, and through that I discovered I loved to write. I came from theater and I, I sang, I danced. But I was actually, when I got my nonprofit job, I said, yes, I can do this job. Please just don’t make me public.

[00:04:10] Speak or write. I don’t do those. I’m a dancer

[00:04:14] Rayna Neises: And here you are.

[00:04:16] Deb Farris: that’s what how God used me. So, As a speaker and a writer. And so God has quite a sense of humor. Never say you’re not wanting to do something.

[00:04:26] Rayna Neises: I can amen that one.

[00:04:28] Deb Farris: So those years together became wonderful. My husband says that I don’t remember the hard things and

[00:04:38] Rayna Neises: Mm.

[00:04:39] Deb Farris: kind of like, I think, you know, giving birth, you don’t remember the labor, but they were an incredible What incredible in so many ways just in healing of the relationship between my father and me. And getting to know my family history through his stories and getting to know my mom more through his stories.

[00:05:01] She was not a sentimentalist, never really looked back and didn’t clinging to things. I’m very sentimental about everything. I clinging to everything I’m the opposite that way, but I and my dad was more like me and so I got this rich history of my family and my parents and the relationship, even though my mom had died.

[00:05:19] How it just grew her love. Our love grew, and. Certainly my dad and I. We were always kind of head to head. He was a, b, C kind of person and I would go from A to Z and back B and anyway, Rayna, it was just an incredible time and through that he was very weak and the doctor said if he got pneumonia, it would all be over.

[00:05:45] Well, he got it nine times and we spent a lot of time in the hospital. I spent a lot of time at his condo spending the night, and my husband was very wonderful in sharing that time. It was the most incredible time of my life. I can honestly say that rich beyond what I ever would’ve expected and my parents’ faith was had grown deeper and deeper and deeper all through their lives. And my faith grew through that time with my father. What more could you ask for than to have someone open up the door to knowing God personally and sharing that with that person. The richness of the relationship line with God in line with my father, and then because of that with everybody that I knew.

[00:06:38] So that came out of my caregiving and I would’ve never expected it, never.

[00:06:44] Rayna Neises: Yeah, I think one of the things that I thought was so precious, with my caregiving season with my dad was just that time. As adults when we’re kids and we live in their home, we don’t look at them as adults. We don’t, we aren’t an adult. We don’t have that ability to see who they are and how other people see them. We watch how they navigate the world, but to me it’s just so different as an adult. And I miss that with my mom, mainly because I was not really an adult while she was still, herself completely, but with my dad. was such a precious time to just enjoy and really be able to laugh together and, just experience life together again at a level that you don’t when you just visit. I think so. I can agree with that.

[00:07:32] And for us, it was funny because when I was very, very young, we went to church together, but then we didn’t. And so there was a season where I took him to church and it was really interesting just to hear him. I still hear his voice singing hymns when I didn’t grow up and see that part of him, you know, it wasn’t a part of his life whenever I was a part of his life as an adult.

[00:07:55] So it was a really precious memory too. So I, I agree a hundred percent. It’s amazing what. That season of life can bring the blessings and surprises. It sounds like one of the surprises for you in that caregiving was just how the depth of your relationship with the Lord how it changed with that season. Would you, would you agree with that?

[00:08:17] Deb Farris: Oh, absolutely. Because that was when I started writing, you know, write, writing these stories about my dad and he was an architect and I had gone into it wanting to document the work that he had always wanted to write about. But pretty soon I was writing about our relationship, just the two of us and our escapades wherever we were. Whether it was just even me running errands for him and, you know, having to answer his calls and get his this or that or whatever. It all became like a scene from something, you know, every, there was always an episode of something going on, so it was, larger than life. I don’t remember where I was going with that.

[00:08:54] I didn’t finish my thought, but

[00:08:58] Rayna Neises: Well, I think it, so it sounds like too, one piece of it was really surprising was just that writing became a love and that you were good at it and that you really were able to capture what was happening and share that.

[00:09:11] Deb Farris: Yeah. And when I’d write my own story, I thought, well, dad’s telling his, I’m gonna tell mine, and it was on the same blog. The blog was called Sundays with Dad. That was our thing. We’d go to church together, come have lunch together, and then he’d tell another story that he wanted me to document.

[00:09:26] When I started sticking some of my stores in there, he was like, Why’s that in there? I thought this was about me. And so I said, okay, dad, you’re right. I’ll start my own blog. I’ll move out. I started a new blog, not according to plan, and did mine and his separately, and then he came back around though and said people really like your blogs.

[00:09:46] I think we should move them back together again because we’ll have more readers this way, and it’s more people, different people that we wouldn’t have on our own. And so then, We worked together. It was funny. And then those blogs became the book Conversations with Dad. I had to write a lot of additional than the blogs, but that was really rewarding to be able to share the faith side of it in me through those stories. That’s what was happening and I think that that’s what God had called me to do.

[00:10:17] To grow in my faith through all of that, through caring for my dad, honoring my parents and letting go of a lot that I had to let go of, and then discovering that there was some new gift that he had given me that I didn’t even know that I had. So it was just blessing after blessing through it, it wasn’t all easy. I mean, it was losing my parents and the worst grief I had lost my older brother and that really was what took me to my chair before. Losing my mom that was caring for her was kind of in the midst of that. But as a dancer, it, that grief took me to a chair with my Bible and a journal and I started feeling that new movement inside of me, the movement of the spirit in my grief and allowing the, the poetry of the Bible and the Psalms to be healing to me.

[00:11:13] And from that, just the rhythms, you know, and, and the words and the way they went together and the images that they created pulled together all of my artistic past, and that started coming out. Then creating images through words.

[00:11:27] So you never know what God’s up to in your life, honestly. Just sit in a chair and he’ll tell you.

[00:11:33] Rayna Neises: Well, and I love how caregiving is a catalyst, I think, to just bringing us, to put ourselves in that place with him and, we know suffering brings us there. And care caregiving there is a level of suffering with that. But I love that the joy comes as well. Because. He brings joy, and so when we bring the suffering, we can exchange it for that. I love that.

[00:11:59] Deb Farris: I would just say mom would say, you know, Debbie, you have to learn to be thankful in every situation. And you know, that’s scriptural. And then the finding joy in the midst of suffering. That’s, that’s what God does. And that’s incredible to experience. It is a mystery and we can’t explain it, but only by his presence in our lives. Can he turn it upside down like that?

[00:12:24] Rayna Neises: I think that’s the part that is beautiful about being able to share our faith during this difficult time. Is that so many times when caregivers are looking for support, they’re being told how to take care of yourself and how to share the load and build the team, which I, amen. Amen. Amen. But the truth is the hope is only in the Lord and the hope of there being joy and this not being the end. Even as we walk them all the way home only comes with the truth of who God is. And so I love to be able to, to hear that in others and to be able to just say it again so that those that are right now in the suffering and aren’t seeing the joy can learn to look for the joy because we are able to go ahead and say it’s there. Look, you can find it.

[00:13:18] Deb Farris: Yeah, you can get so drained and so tired, you know, and you get worn out and when you let go of that hope it becomes, everything becomes dry and weighty and, Edgy and it just, it’s then, you know, let me just sit back into this, Lord, fill me. And we can’t do it ourselves. I remember sitting in the hospital one day feeling that way.

[00:13:44] My mom was having to have her lung strained and it was very painful and her little eyes were red rimmed and she was just so weary from the cancer, and I just felt like I, what can, it’s awful to. She was someone that you love suffering to such a degree. And she went in to have her procedure done. And I was sitting there just feeling like I am not in a good place.

[00:14:11] I didn’t get enough sleep. I’m feeling the cranky, just the, the Debbie that I don’t like at all. And I sat and looked down and I started to cry and there were two women sitting across from me and one said, it’s a beautiful thing I. And I looked up and makes me cry to remember, but what I said. And she said, your relationship with your mom?

[00:14:37] And I said, oh yeah, it is, it is. Thank you. And then the other one, they, they both had hats on and they both had purses that they held in their laps. And honestly, I believe that they were angels and they were trying to hold those angels and keep their halos or whatever it was to keep their presence, you know, very contained.

[00:14:58] And we spent that time that mom was in getting the fluid drained talking and they poured into me like I would never have imagined. And I don’t even remember what we talked about, but it was funny and it was rich and wonderful and healing. And I walked out of the hospital that day back to where I felt like, I can do this, I can do this.

[00:15:22] And come on mom, we’re gonna be okay. Let’s go shopping and get a latte. I, you know, I don’t know. But that spirit, she wasn’t in the place for it. I’d put her in a wheelchair and take her to the coffee shop in the hospital, you know, and then to the gift shop and buy her some earrings. We had fun. We, but I, I had to be in that place where I had been filled and God does it in spite of us.

[00:15:45] Rayna Neises: Well, and that was the question that came next was where did God show up for you? So I love that story and I love just even that thought of, were they real or were they just angels? You don’t know because the scripture tells us that we’ll entertain them without even realizing it. But I love how he met you right in that place, and I’m sure that by you being filled again, that when she came out of that such difficult procedure. That you helped to fill her again too.

[00:16:16] Deb Farris: Yeah, it’s, it’s a privilege to be a part of God’s work and. Other people’s lives and to be able to use us at our worst, you know, at our very worst.

[00:16:27] Rayna Neises: it is.

[00:16:29] Deb Farris: And he certainly uses me at my very worst. Never really at my best. I’m always having to be very vulnerable and, weak and exposed kind of feeling

[00:16:38] Rayna Neises: well, so. Yeah. When we’re weak, he’s strong. It’s when we think we’re strong, that’s when we’re usually not really, not really sharing about him. Right. So we’re just kind of pushing through on our own wills. So, well, tell us one thing that you feel like you do daily that would help you love, well, live content or care without regret.

[00:17:01] Deb Farris: when my, I took my dad to visit my sister in Tucson. We were at the bookstore and I found Rick Warren’s book Purpose Driven Life. And I had, you know, never been ex I I never read it. I thought, Hmm, okay, I, I need a little purpose driven life. And so I, I started reading that and my dad had always wanted us to follow a daily Bible reading commitment.

[00:17:25] And he instructed that we read from. One book of the Bible in four different places and read from the Old Testament, the Psalms, the Gospel, and the New Testament. And I’m like, that’s a lot of reading Dad. But he said, no, just read whatever, however much you want, move on quickly, even if it’s just one verse. But you’re gonna be amazed at how the Holy Spirit ties it all together. And I was. And He did. And I started that practice every morning getting in my chair, and I couldn’t wait to get there. And it became, it grew longer and longer. You know, first it was maybe 15 minutes, then all of a sudden it was an hour, and it was never enough. It just flew by. And that changed my life. It changed my life. From that practice and that discipline my job at Dance Works came. And who would’ve thought, as a dancer at 45 at that time, getting an MFA in dance, why was I doing that? Just to connect to the community after coming back from my marriage.

[00:18:30] But I didn’t know what I would do with it. But God knew he was moving me into a position leading this organization with dance, and I had to follow along with that. So. That practice continues to this day.

[00:18:45] And now since I stepped away from my job, I could spend all day in just reading and praying and writing, journaling, and I have to pull myself away from it. So it’s it’s that time with God where, He speaks to you through through his word, interprets it to you for you. So, You can know more and more deeply who Jesus is, and that’s what it’s about, the Holy Spirit interpreting. So we can know who Jesus is and that’s what happens, and that’s what came out of my caregiving and It changed my life.

[00:19:25] Kids used to say that in our dance program, you should try it, it’ll change your life. I feel that way about my time with the Lord in the morning and then he interprets all day long through people. You hear him speak through nature powerfully for me because of the images certainly, but everything becomes different when it’s in connection with the flow of the spirit through you and that surrender of self.

[00:19:49] We’re pretty boring. You know, I’m pretty boring on my own. Without him, it’s ugh. But put God in somebody and you see a transformed life. Oh, I have another story, but maybe I shouldn’t share it. What about transforming? You know letting your Romans 12, two, be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

[00:20:10] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:11] Deb Farris: And dad had called me on the day that he died into his bedroom that morning. Debbie, come here. I have one more story for you. And he told me about how he had memorized the whole chapter of Romans 12 and told me the story of it. And I get your pencil, write it down. And I wrote it down. And it was a powerful story of memorizing that as he was riding with a friend who was in high school, older than him who was a truck driver and said Dad could come along as they drove south and he was in the back reading Romans and the guy asked, what are you reading back there? And dad said, oh, well, I’m memorizing it. You want me to tell you what it is?

[00:20:46] And. So he read the chapter and when it got to the part where, you know, do whatever you do for the glory of God, do it to the best of your ability. And he put the word in instead of teaching prophesying, truck driving. He stuck that in. The guy said, wait a minute, it doesn’t say that. And dad, well that’s what it means.

[00:21:05] And so I used Romans 12 for his service and had each one of his grandkids read one of the verses and it was the best part of his service. So anyway.

[00:21:14] Rayna Neises: I love how those moments, again, you didn’t know when he was sharing that that was his last story, that it would be his last story. But because you were there and able to, document it, then that gave you the inspiration then to be able to share about his faith and how important that was to him at his celebration of life. So I love that. Well, our time is gone, so do you have one more nugget of wisdom that you’d like to really just share with the caregivers that are listening? Something that they can just really take away and put in their pocket?

[00:21:45] I.

[00:21:47] Deb Farris: Well, I think you said it at the beginning, Reyna, that it’s so important that we take care of ourselves as we’re caring for someone else, and I know that it’s really easy not to take care of ourselves and sometimes it’s a season where you just have to keep giving more than you think you can.

[00:22:06] But God is faithful there. He will, he will replenish in due time and to not lose hope. Mom would say. Everybody deserves hope, even if it’s just for a day. When a hospice nurse had kind of stolen her ho hope and she didn’t understand, you know, what was going on with her, but she felt like she’s talking to me like I’m dying and I’m living still.

[00:22:33] So I think that that would be the nugget. As you know, you’re doing the greatest honor by caring for your parents or whoever it is, and not to lose hope. Allow God to meet you in those moments, unexpected moments, eyes open, ears open, seeing, and listening beyond your ability, but the spirit will take those veils away and allow you to hear the words that are gentle, the whispers that assure you that you’re not alone. You can’t lose hope. Even when you feel you have nothing left to give, God will meet you there. I don’t know if that’s a nugget, but

[00:23:19] Rayna Neises: It’s

[00:23:20] Deb Farris: lose hope. We get tired. No.

[00:23:22] Rayna Neises: Our weariness can lead to that. And that’s where I think it’s so important to just remember to cling onto the hope. Even if you’re wary, there’s still hope in him. And sometimes I found that I’m trying to define hope in a specific way. And that’s why I’m losing it because I’m trying to attach my own thoughts to it.

[00:23:42] You know, God’s gonna do this, and that’s what I’m hoping for. You know, instead of just the hope that is in him and in his love and mercy that we experience every day. That’s the hope that we have to hold onto.

[00:23:56] Deb Farris: Well, that’s a good nugget to share there.

[00:24:00] Rayna Neises: Well, thanks so much for just sharing with us, Deb. Will you let our audience know how they can find your blog and be able to just stay connected with you?

[00:24:09] Deb Farris: I’m easy. I’m deb ferris.com. That will take you to my website and that’s where my blog lives. And I would just love to know what’s going on with you and if I can be a support in any way, please connect. Give me your email or just. Through the contact page, reach out, let me know what’s going on. I’ll email back. I’m, you can call me. I’d be happy to share, you know, whatever I can to help you through this journey, because you’re a blessing, you’re a great blessing, and you’re doing God’s work through what you’re doing, even though you may not be aware of it as it’s happening. So anyway, debfarris.com. Pretty simple.

[00:24:50] Rayna Neises: I love that. Thanks again, Deb, for sharing with us today.

[00:24:53] Deb Farris: Thanks, Rayna.

[00:24:54] Rayna Neises: Well listeners, thank you for joining us for Stories of Hope from Deb. This episode has been brought to you by Content Caregiver Magazine, an electronic quarterly magazine available today to help you find God in the midst of your caregiving season.

[00:25:07] Take a moment, take that deep breath, find him, and then jump right back into your caregiving life refreshed. It’s available at content. magazine.online.

[00:25:19] A Season of Caring podcast has been created to share stories of hope for living content, loving well, and caring with no regrets. If you have legal, financial, or medical questions, be sure to consult your local professionals and take heart in your season of caring.

*Transcript is an actual recount of the live conversation