[00:00:19] Deborah is a past caregiver who lost her job due to caregiving. As a result, she founded her company Advocate for Mom and Dad. Deb writes on caregiving issues for adult children of aging parents at her website, www.advocateformomanddad.com. She’s an author of two books, your Caregiver Relationship Contract, a Practical Step-by-Step Guide for Discussing Relationship Issues that arise between caregivers and their partners, and a relationship contract for dementia caregivers, which provides the readers with practical knowledge and necessary steps at each stage of the disease to continuously adapt their practices and expectations to meet the needs of the person you care for, and more importantly, your own needs as the disease progresses.

[00:01:06] Deb, it’s so good to have you here today. I’m excited to be able to visit with you.

[00:01:10] Debra Hallisey: Rayna, It’s a delight to be with you, as always. I thoroughly enjoy when we get to catch up with one another.

[00:01:17] Rayna Neises: I like to start off by just sharing a little bit about your mom and dad and your caregiving season. So share with us what that was like.

[00:01:24] Debra Hallisey: So my caregiving season lasted for nine years, I wanna say eight or nine. Somewhere in there. I have to do the math. It started in 2014 when my dad was diagnosed with congestive heart failure and. I became his caregiver going to doctor’s appointments with him and didn’t even realize, didn’t think about the fact that I was a caregiver.

[00:01:48] But maybe even more importantly because dad was my mother’s caregiver who was legally blind and had mobility issues and a diabetic, I really started to help him with her. We lost him in 2015, and that’s when I became my mother’s caregiver. My mom and I, we were able to keep our inner home for seven years.

[00:02:12] And then the pandemic did me in. She had two wounds we had to take care of. She had an eye infection where she lost the rest of her eyesight, and my health started to really take a toll. And after seven years, you know, one day I was able to say, you know, mom I, I, we have to change something. You know, I’m, I’m having health problems and.

[00:02:34] God bless my mother. Her immediate response is, your health is not worth me staying in this house. And so she agreed to a move to an assisted living, which is about 10 minutes from me, and I lost her last November. Completely un unexpectedly, peacefully. I got a call from the assisted living. I saying, we can’t believe we have to tell this. Your mom died.

[00:02:57] Rayna Neises: Wow.

[00:02:58] Debra Hallisey: But I do have to tell you that it came at the end of an incredible month together, a joy filled month together. And I, I think she was truly at peace and she just let go and God came and took her. In fact, you know, maybe at the end I’ll read you something my brother wrote to me, which was, Incredible. He sent it to me in a text a couple days after we buried her, so that’s why I say I am now a past caregiver, even though that feels really weird. having been a caregiver for so long, I.

[00:03:34] Rayna Neises: Yeah. Yeah. And I think we do we have, that’s where seasons come from, right? For me, I think there are seasons of those caregiving. And one of the things that, I have a person who helps me with a support group that I lead, and she said, I went from a caregiving season of caring for a daughter who was born with special needs and she passed at 30 years old, and she also lost her husband really close to that same period of time from Crohn’s and she said, I went from being their caregivers to learning how to be my caregiver.

[00:04:07] And I think as a caregiver, that is such an important thing to learn is how do I care for myself? And we have to do it in the middle of our season of caring for others, but we also have to do it when we lose them because life changes so much and it does take a period of really adjusting and learning how to take care of ourselves.

[00:04:27] Debra Hallisey: A hundred percent, 110% Rayna. It’s, it’s, it’s so interesting to me because, you know, there’s a couple things going through my mind. I mean, I, I came across a term called Grief Relief. And I definitely not only felt that when my mom passed, but I also actually felt that when I moved her into the assisted living, You know, there was such grief around taking her out of our family home, and I felt so bad about that.

[00:05:01] But at the same time, there was such a relief that I was not a hundred percent responsible any for, and then I felt guilty for the relief.

[00:05:10] Rayna Neises: Mm.

[00:05:10] Debra Hallisey: You know, and I think when you’ve been intensely caregiving and, and an intense caregiving situation doesn’t have to last for years. It could be months with somebody getting a diagnosis that they go very quickly, but it’s crisis after crisis.

[00:05:25] And one of the things that I’ve come to realize is I’m still in that fight, flight or fear mode a hundred percent. And I expected that to go away and it didn’t. And so part of taking care of myself is giving myself grace because I don’t have the energy that I feel like I should. You know, I don’t socialize and go out with people. I thought, oh no, I have the time to go out and meet friends.

[00:05:58] Rayna Neises: Yes.

[00:05:59] Debra Hallisey: Sometimes I do and sometimes I don’t. You know and we can beat ourself up for not getting back to normal.

[00:06:05] Rayna Neises: Yes,

[00:06:06] Debra Hallisey: But normal is gone. We have to create a new normal.

[00:06:09] Rayna Neises: A hundred percent. I’ve been doing some research on grief just because so many people I’ve been talking to about it and the impact both while we’re caregiving and then that after time and that after caregiving one of the things that I loved when I found the research that was talking about our brain is having to completely rewire.

[00:06:29] Because as caregivers, like you said, we’ve always been looking at all of life, all of our decisions. Can I go do this? Can I afford to do that? Do I have the time and energy to do that through the lens of caregiving? This person has been dependent on me, so every decision I make goes down that path that considers that responsibility.

[00:06:50] Just like a parent, many other things in life, we have those lenses we have to look at life through. Now, suddenly that lens is gone and the ruts, the actual processing pathways in our brain no longer have to go there, but they naturally do because they have for so long. So we’re having to rewire our brain and recreate those thought patterns without that person and that responsibility in them.

[00:07:16] And it’s exhausting. It’s exhausting to completely learn new things always, but definitely in the midst of, that’s part of what makes grief so difficult is this relearning what it’s like in this next season of life.

[00:07:32] Debra Hallisey: You know, it’s so interesting you said that I, I called friends that are out on the West coast to say Happy Easter to them, and they’re like, you know, we would like you to come along with us to a two week cruise in Alaska. In August of 2024, and my initial thought is, oh, I can’t plan that far ahead. And then I was like, no, actually you can, you can.

[00:07:58] And it was just this weird, like I almost couldn’t connect that in my head and I went like, oh, oh yeah, no, I would love to, you know, and. And that’s really exciting to think that I can do that, now. I know things can happen between now

[00:08:16] Rayna Neises: Sure.

[00:08:17] Debra Hallisey: but the possibility

[00:08:19] Rayna Neises: Is there now? Yeah.

[00:08:21] Debra Hallisey: now, you know, and it’s it’s disorienting

[00:08:24] Rayna Neises: It is. Yeah. Because for so long that wasn’t your normal, so it’s taking time to establish what the new normal looks

[00:08:33] Debra Hallisey: Yeah, and it, it’s funny you should say rewiring your brain because that’s, I. You know, the, the, this week’s blog, blog post is about that fight, fight or fear. And I’m in kind of the fear where it’s like you suddenly put the brakes on. Right? And, you know, and what comes out of that is just what I’m feeling is lethargy.

[00:08:51] You know, I’m not quite the bubbly personality I was and just all these things. But what really struck me about that was we don’t realize as caregivers, the trauma we have during that process, and trauma is the right word, it just is, and trauma imprints on your memory and the hippo calmus, and you actually have to, as you said, rewire that.

[00:09:18] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:19] Debra Hallisey: And you know what, it can take years

[00:09:22] Rayna Neises: It does. Definitely.

[00:09:24] Debra Hallisey: and nobody tells us that.

[00:09:26] Rayna Neises: No, and it’s funny cuz I think for myself, I kind of fooled myself into thinking I was grieving. Not that I wasn’t, I really was grieving. I mean, I, I had a 14 year journey with my dad, so there was grief, there was a lot of grief throughout it, of him forgetting who I was, just all of those things.

[00:09:45] But when he was gone, I really didn’t think, that the grief would be so deep and so long, because it was a long goodbye, but man, it was, and it surprised me. It really did. That’s part of the reason why I know how hard it is when you lose, I think the second parent, the last parent is. Also very different.

[00:10:07] But there’s just a long exhausting process and when you realize how much work your brain is doing to just adapt to what life is now compared to what it was before, like you said, getting your cortisol levels down, just all of the things. There’s so much that’s happening that it really is a long process and giving yourself the grace and the time.

[00:10:31] Those are the two things that I would get tell people over and over again. It’s just be gracious with yourself. Let go of the expectations because it’s not gonna be anything like you think it will be. And to just be kind to yourself through the journey. Allow yourself the space, the rest, I slept a lot. I, it was months before I didn’t nap every day.

[00:10:55] And that just is not me. It hadn’t been me and, and isn’t me today. So, but it was in that season. And I say that frequently, it’s a season of grief. We leave that season of caregiving, but we enter into a season of grief and we don’t expect it. And we don’t think that that’s normal or that it should happen, or it should be this bad, but I think that’s true. Probably es of caregiving too, right? So it’s just one

[00:11:22] Debra Hallisey: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think what’s so interesting is, and you’ve said it, that, I always say grief runs through caregiving like a river. We, we may not recognize that it’s grief, it may come out as anger or frustration or depression, but it, it really does underlie and we really need to claim it.

[00:11:42] Because if we don’t claim it, we can’t move beyond it and it comes out as all those other emotions. But the part that I find frustrating is society makes it okay to grieve after a death. So that whole grief during the process, no one really lets us talk about it. Unless you’re another caregiver, you can.

[00:12:02] And then once the death happens, they’re, you’re like, well, why aren’t you over this? It’s been five months. You know? They don’t realize that a caregiving situation is so intense that intensifies the grief. So I’m, I’m curious, when you lost your mom, did that reignite feelings of grief for your dad?

[00:12:24] Rayna Neises: So I lost my mom first,

[00:12:26] Debra Hallisey: Okay. You lost your mom

[00:12:27] Rayna Neises: Yes. So I lost my mom first. I was 28 when my mom passed away.

[00:12:31] Debra Hallisey: Okay.

[00:12:32] Rayna Neises: And sadly when I look back on that experience my life was in crisis in a lot of ways. Financially, my marriage was not good at that point. And then my mom’s death was very traumatic as you, I think most are. But She, she screamed in a, a looping cycle for six weeks.

[00:12:53] And so it was a very long, drawn out process and there were really wasn’t much they could do to give her relief. And so I was very young and that was not, that was the first death that I had experienced. And it was, it was awful. And I was in a position where I didn’t have space. I didn’t give myself space.

[00:13:13] We had her funeral and I was back at work the next day. I was working three jobs, and so I would say I didn’t, I had delayed grief. I didn’t really grieve now throughout, because it’s been a long time that she’s been gone. Then throughout life as moments have happened that I wish she was there.

[00:13:29] I’ve grieved her not being there and I’ve had smaller moments of grief, but then losing my dad, I think did trigger more of that grief of not having my mom because I didn’t necessarily take the time and allow the space. I think it is interesting. I don’t know if it’s because we’re older that we have more space or why it is.

[00:13:52] But I think when we’re younger or when we’re in a certain season of life, that’s where I think people’s expectations that you just move on comes in because life goes on. And when you’re in a point in life where I just didn’t have a choice not to go on with my mom. And so I did, and I think I eventually, smaller periods of time grieved it.

[00:14:15] But I would definitely say losing my dad to, brought it to a whole different level. And I do think I, and maybe I just contributed that to being both parents being gone, but I felt like losing my dad was a very I call it an untethering experience. I felt like my place that I always was grounded and could always come back to that love and acceptance and person who looked at me through lens of never do wrong, you know, it was gone and it was very unsettling to have my dad gone. But that was who that person was for me, so I’m not sure.

[00:14:54] Debra Hallisey: Well, it’s interesting because in retrospect, because we lost my dad and I immediately became my mom’s caregiver, I didn’t really get a chance to grieve him either. You know? There were things that happened, and I think we’ve talked about this, where I, I walked into a Hallmark store a couple months later, and.

[00:15:11] Started sobbing and how to walk out, right? Because it’s like, oh my God, I’ll never buy him another card.

[00:15:16] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:17] Debra Hallisey: When I lost my mom, it really did bring up the grief for him again. And I think partially because they were so tightly a couple, you know? But the other thing that’s so interesting, I’m now five months out and I find myself even more than when she was first gone thinking, oh, if she was here, you know, the dog got groomed and she loved when he first got groomed and I was like, oh, I would’ve brought him right over so she could see him cuz he smelled so good and she loved him. I find myself having those kind of thoughts, you know, less than when it first happened and maybe because there’s a lot of stuff.

[00:15:54] That has to go on. But I’ve talked to other people who have said, yeah, it takes about five or six months before it’s like, oh no, they really are gone. You know, it’s like you don’t deny it in words, but in your head it’s not real yet.

[00:16:10] Rayna Neises: Yes. Yeah. It’s this head and the heart thing that aren’t connected anymore. At this point. There’s this dissonance between the two that the heart is still longing to be with them, and the head’s going, oh, that’s right. It’s trying to catch up. You know? The heart is not where the head is. The head realizes they’re gone.

[00:16:25] But I would say, It goes on for a long time. I mean, I think that’s part of going through those first holidays. Without them, that feels awkward, but the second holiday without them is like, oh yeah, they’re like really gone.

[00:16:39] Debra Hallisey: Yeah, I found that with my dad. You know, I think the first holidays I was so focused on getting my mother through it, that I didn’t think about it at all. But, but that second holiday I found even harder. And she was, she was better, you know? So, you know, it’s interesting. I’m trying to think. I, her’s gonna be Mother’s Day last year, my brother and sister-in-law sent us out for brunch.

[00:16:59] We had a wonderful day. What are you gonna do? I wanna mark it in some way. So what are you gonna do? How are you going to get through this? And I haven’t decided yet.

[00:17:12] Rayna Neises: Yeah,

[00:17:13] Debra Hallisey: I haven’t decided yet.

[00:17:15] Rayna Neises: I think new traditions are important in thinking about and really being able to honor it and not just let it go by as if it’s not happening, but really be able to honor and you do get to a point where I feel like the memories become really sweet and just those moments of reminiscing can be a real blessing to really just take the time to honor and think about what that relationship was and all that it brought to your life. So,

[00:17:38] Debra Hallisey: you know what’s really weird? This is so silly, the thought’s so silly, but so my mother prayed to Saint Teresa of the little flower. Having grown up Catholic, I get that right. And, and somewhere along the line, I bought her a really big statue, like it should have gone in the garden was one of those.

[00:17:56] But she refused to put it in the garden because this was St. Teresa, so it had a place in the house. And when she moved to the assisted living, St. Teresa had to come with us.

[00:18:07] Rayna Neises: Okay.

[00:18:08] Debra Hallisey: And she was blind, so she, well, we are St. Teresa. Well, St. Teresa is in this little corner facing you on the bed. Facing the bed, right?

[00:18:16] And when she passed, I went, what am I gonna do with this stupid statue?

[00:18:23] Rayna Neises: right? Yeah. So.

[00:18:24] Debra Hallisey: Oh my God. So I thought, well, let me bring it home. Well, I found a place in my home and now I don’t ever wanna let it go.

[00:18:34] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:35] Debra Hallisey: It’s like this tangible piece of her

[00:18:38] Rayna Neises: Yeah.

[00:18:39] Debra Hallisey: that I love. And I never thought, it never occurred to me that it would become so important to me

[00:18:45] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:46] Debra Hallisey: You know? So I, I think I, I think sometimes, we need to be open to things after someone goes in a way that I hadn’t expected to be open.

[00:19:00] Rayna Neises: Yeah, I think that’s true. Yep. Everything changes.

[00:19:06] Debra Hallisey: Yeah. St. Teresa is guarding my front door, and I never expected that to happen. It’s, it’s amazing. It really is. So,

[00:19:13] Rayna Neises: So what would you say was most surprising about caregiving in general?

[00:19:19] Debra Hallisey: I still go back to how it changes every relationship in your life. It’s every, everything is affected. And that I, and I love the fact that my mom and I struggled when I was growing up, but through these last eight years, we really became a team.

[00:19:38] Rayna Neises: Mm.

[00:19:39] Debra Hallisey: In a way I never expected that we could. And so that caregiving was an incredible gift for me. In terms of my mom and being able to love her in new and different ways so funny. She was not. She was, my dad was more affectionate, but my mom was not, you know, it was the way she was brought up. Right? Really strict Italian parents. And so she had a hard time growing up saying, I love you, but as time went on in caregiving, she told me more and more,

[00:20:11] Rayna Neises: Mm.

[00:20:11] Debra Hallisey: I love you.

[00:20:12] Thank you for taking care of me, which was like, Wow, that’s my mom in a different way. And after she passed, I got some incredible notes from her friend saying she was so proud of you, she loved you so much. So she was funny cuz she could talk to other people about me, but she couldn’t say it to me.

[00:20:29] Rayna Neises: Yeah.

[00:20:30] Debra Hallisey: There is great healing in that with her passing. Great healing in that. But yeah, how it changes. And now on the other side of it, how much it’s changed me.

[00:20:43] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:45] Debra Hallisey: In ways I never would’ve expected. Yeah, it really, it’s really life changing, you know? I think sometimes it could be for better or for worse, and I’m just grateful through the grace of God it was for better.

[00:21:00] Rayna Neises: Yes. Yeah, for sure. I agree.

[00:21:03] Debra Hallisey: Yeah.

[00:21:04] Rayna Neises: Yeah. So how would you say God showed up for you in your caregiving? I.

[00:21:09] Debra Hallisey: God very much showed up for me in caregiving by helping me to become self-aware and helping me to realize that I had a choice that caregiving could make or break the relationship with my mother. And I had a choice. And that choice was to become more self-aware and put aside that inner eight year old and any past hurts and really be open and honest with her in dialogue. In ways I hadn’t been before. One example comes to me, you know, I would, when I went up to be her caregiver for those four days, I would walk in the door and there was, I would get hit bombarded with all the things she needed done or whatever and whatever, whatever. And my head was spinning cuz I just had to pack up my life and, and drive an hour to get to her.

[00:22:03] And I knew there was a lot on my plate. And so the self-awareness to say, okay, you need to take a step back and say, Mom, it would really help me if when I walk in the door I can go to the bathroom, put my stuff down, get a glass of water, and come sit with you and talk like I just need 15 minutes. And that eight year old child would’ve said, would you just leave me alone and do what I need to do?

[00:22:30] You know? So I really feel like God was guiding me to how to understand my mother better and in the understanding of her change my behaviors. Cuz the only behaviors you can change is yours.

[00:22:47] Rayna Neises: Yes, a hundred

[00:22:48] Debra Hallisey: Now. My mother did change. She absolutely grew and changed and watching that happen was a gift, an absolute gift.

[00:22:57] You know, I think about that last month of her life. We had two baby showers. The first one. We saw people we hadn’t seen since the pandemic. And I have some of the best pictures of my mom, just people sitting down and hugging her and TA sitting down and talking with her.

[00:23:15] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:15] Debra Hallisey: And then the second baby shower was my 65th birthday. And so we got to spend my birthday together, the family sang Happy birthday, loudly and off key, which was very fun. And that was a Sunday. And then that Thursday was Thanksgiving. Mom and I hosted Thanksgiving at her assisted living in the private dining room with people who didn’t have family.

[00:23:40] Rayna Neises: Hmm.

[00:23:41] Debra Hallisey: And my mother was always the host. And, and what that did was bring her back to her and I would be in the kitchen area and hear her and, and hear them talking, you know, and getting to know one another better. And three of the four were Italians. They were talking about you growing up Italian, right? And so that was Thursday, Saturday I did a food demo. Cause I would do a food demo once a month. I still do that. And Monday she was gone

[00:24:11] Rayna Neises: Mm.

[00:24:12] Debra Hallisey: completely unexpectedly. And I just feel like she kind of said, okay, God, this was really wonderful. I’m ready to meet Don again.

[00:24:21] Rayna Neises: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:22] Debra Hallisey: and that was such a gift.

[00:24:25] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:26] Debra Hallisey: And God com completely. God’s handiwork. I had nothing to do with that.

[00:24:30] She wasn’t sick. She was in the hospital. We were shocked.

[00:24:33] Rayna Neises: Yeah.

[00:24:34] Debra Hallisey: We were shocked.

[00:24:36] Rayna Neises: I’m sure it was really hard to hear that news, like just like to even imagine that it was true, but at the same time, what a blessing.

[00:24:45] Debra Hallisey: A hundred percent. I’m like, what? What? And, and, and yet Reyna, I look back and I think, you know, these last couple weeks she was sleeping a lot more.

[00:24:56] Rayna Neises: Mm. So you were seeing those things?

[00:24:58] Debra Hallisey: Yeah. You know, and I remember one time thinking, I wonder if she’s starting to transition, because when you’ve gone through this already, you see that

[00:25:05] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:06] Debra Hallisey: But by the same token, you and I know a transition could be a weeker, or years.

[00:25:09] Rayna Neises: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:25:10] Debra Hallisey: So may I share something My brother texted to me.

[00:25:16] Rayna Neises: Yeah, definitely.

[00:25:17] Debra Hallisey: Okay. So this came as a text to me. So. About three days after the services, he said, I had a very strange dream last night. He did a, a eulogy Friday night. I was giving that eulogy again, and then in the dream, I had a moment where something came to me like a realization.

[00:25:34] Well, in this dream, I realized that that Thanksgiving dinner was very important because it is when she became Doris again, inviting everyone that needed it to come to the dinner table. A major theme on Friday and Saturday. Like old times. I think God needed to see that her soul had been restored and that now, and only now, she was ready to join. Daddy. Oh and make no mistake about it. He carried her over the threshold of heaven. I woke up weeping and

[00:26:04] Rayna Neises: So beautiful.

[00:26:06] Debra Hallisey: And there was God. In that whole thing, you know? And so I’m so grateful for the experience and blessed at the way she went. It was what she wanted, you know? She, she, for eight years, she wanted to meet up with my dad again,

[00:26:22] Rayna Neises: Yeah.

[00:26:23] Debra Hallisey: know, so, Yeah. It’s what we all want for the people we love, you know, we really, and for ourselves. So, so God was all over it. Sometimes you don’t see it.

[00:26:35] Rayna Neises: Yeah, I think sometimes it’s hard to see it in the middle of it, and that’s part of the reason why I love to ask that question, because on the outside we can see it, but sometimes in the middle of it, it can be hard. But when we learn to see him in the middle of it too, then it’s that much more of a blessing because that, I think that’s where the joy is, is when we start to see that He is right there in the middle of it all, and when we start to call it out to ourselves, it’s just there’s a joy there that isn’t there when we don’t notice.

[00:27:03] Debra Hallisey: Well, you know, truly because in the midst of all that without, without God working it, it, it would’ve been a hundred percent different, a hundred percent different. One of the things that’s really has also been a blessing through the last, for a lot of reasons I stopped going to my church, you know, between caregiving and, and you know, the church was changing and all that good stuff.

[00:27:27] And I recently found a new church that feels like home and it’s so wonderful to go back to that. You know, I, I hadn’t in the midst of the craziness of caregiving, and trying to do it over zoom and stuff like that, it just, It wasn’t the same. When you’re in prayer together and when you’re in song together, there as the song goes, God is in our midst.

[00:27:52] And so know, it’s real. Been wonderful to have that part of my life back. It really has been. So, yeah.

[00:28:01] Rayna Neises: Yes.

[00:28:02] Debra Hallisey: Yeah.

[00:28:03] Rayna Neises: So let’s close with just a nugget of wisdom you would like to pass on to our listeners.

[00:28:09] Debra Hallisey: A nugget of wisdom. Oh golly. I think my nugget is just know that there is grief throughout this entire process and that sometimes to really, to just say, you know, if you are sharp or angry or frustrated and it comes out and a behavior on you, I want you to take a step moment, say it back, back, and maybe pray about a little bit and think, is this something that the person did that I, you know, I’m, I’m, it’s okay to be angry about.

[00:28:46] Or is this kind of this knee jerk reaction because they’ve just not been able to dress themselves and you’re realizing at some level how that has, that’s another, another thing they can no longer do, and it’s really grief underlying that, that they’re slowly and slowly going away from you. Because if you can recognize the grief and you can feel it and move on you. You tend to not have the craziness in terms of the behaviors, and when you recognize the grief, give yourself grace.

[00:29:23] Rayna Neises: Such great words. So Deb, how can our audience connect with you and just keep up with all the things you’re doing so.

[00:29:31] Debra Hallisey: Absolutely. So you mentioned the beginning, my website, which is www.advocateformomanddad.com. And I’ve been writing a lot about this season now that I’m in this season after caregiving. And I, I will say, it’s, it’s so wonderful to hear, as a writer, if you can voice what someone else’s feeling and they recognize it, it’s such a blessing.

[00:29:52] It really is. And this, and particularly this last article about the. Fight, flight or freeze. You know, I’ve had a lot of people say, well, I didn’t. This is what I’m going through. Thank you I can, I can now forgive myself. I don’t have to beat myself up that I’m, I’m still feeling this way however long after, you know, the passing or the caregiving has ended.

[00:30:11] And then there are the two books that you mentioned, and they’re available on Amazon. If you Google my name. The first name is Debra, d e b r a. And the last name Halsey, h a l l i s e y. They’ll come up and you can order them and I hope you find ’em helpful.

[00:30:27] Rayna Neises: Well, great. Thank you so much, Deb, for being here and just sharing a little of your journey. Journey. Journey with your parents and the season outside of it. I think this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate it.

[00:30:39] Debra Hallisey: Oh, thank you for having me. I love chatting with you. I really do.

[00:30:42] Rayna Neises: Thank you again for joining us on A Season of Caring Podcast, for stories of hope with Deb. We’re thankful for the opportunity to share with you a little about our grief process. If you’re interested in learning more about finding Peace in Grief, visit www.aseasonofcaring.com looking for Peace in Grief, a resource for broken hearted caregivers. Filled with opportunities for you to learn more about different kinds of grief, sit in on grief conversations, as well as learn more about how to process your grief. A season of Caring podcast has been created for sharing stories of hope for living content, loving well, and caring with no regrets. If you have financial, legal, or medical questions, be sure to consult your local professionals and take heart in your season of caring.

*Transcript is an actual recount of the live conversation